Curse

Kunder · Jan 09, 2012, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Discord builds have the following attributes:

AP spikers w/ PvE skills are ridiculously imba.

Minions/Spirits are imba

Soul Reaping lets necromancers run secondaries really well (not imba in and of itself, but combining powerful secondaries with minions in the same build is).

Discord is pretty bad. Just an elite, conditional flare really.

The build itself works because the 4 of these average out to a still pretty good build overall. As a spike build, when an AP player can do 280 damage with 0 cast time every 2s (EVAS is another ~200 in 1s cast time, and isn't even needed most of the time), it doesn't matter much what the rest of the team does as long as it includes not dying.

*lemming* · Jan 09, 2012, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordiego

If aNet made 100/100 instead of 50/50 HOM, where one would need 50 statues in Honor monument to max it, it IS possible that ppl would mass PVP.

It's a lot more likely that they'd just find some way of exploiting the system.

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 09, 2012, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

It's a lot more likely that they'd just find some way of exploiting the system.

The truth in this made me laugh.

Don't people already do "red resign" or something like that? I'd imagine it would just migrate to other formats.

Avatar Exico · Jan 10, 2012, 01:50 AM // 01:50

I don't get, why would Anet buff the elements of the Elementalists, didnt they see how op the pvp spike was with Eles in GVG, because u could 1 shot anyone in pvp with spike build that consisting with Water, Air, Fire, Earth. Now that build got more buffed that any before.

With DWG wasn't really nerfed post guy in the (Ele Re-balance thread) stated that now DWG can do 2800 dmg in HM and now HM areas go faster cause you can for instance 1 shot mobs grps in DOA because LB Strike does 613 dmg which will increase speed of DOA clear a lot faster

*lemming* · Jan 10, 2012, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Stone Sheath is definitely bonkers.

enter_the_zone · Jan 10, 2012, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordiego

If aNet made 100/100 instead of 50/50 HOM, where one would need 50 statues in Honor monument to max it, it IS possible that ppl would mass PVP.

No, it isn't. As a compulsive completionist, who already has 50/50 and is one VQ title away from GWAMM, if ANet shifted the goalpost to 100 at this stage, then they can just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off and die.... painfully.

Seriously, all that would do is just make more people throw up their hands in despair at the idiotic levels of grind required and quit. I know I'd quit, and not just GW1 either.

Coast · Jan 10, 2012, 09:03 AM // 09:03

50/50or 100/100 , idc if they change it.
Alrdy got everything

JONO51 · Jan 10, 2012, 12:03 PM // 12:03

There is an extended HoM calculator around somewhere that goes up to 100 but its in french only iirc (not official ofc).

MithranArkanere · Jan 10, 2012, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=124

"Might" is not the same as "will not".

I've seen Sousuke using the skill when the effect on him won't hit any enemy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Stone Sheath is definitely bonkers.

Bring 5 Doublecast elementalist and a dervish (preferably humans, since heroes underuse doublecasts) and watch the fun.

The dervish becomes a literally tank with massive health and armor surrounded by weakened enemies, burning and freezing everything around himself, and knocking down enemies that try to escape.

If it wasn't for the relatively long recharge in Double Dragon and the tendency enemies have to scatter in HM, it would be brutal.

But since this requires a quite some coordination and caution so the enemies won't scatter, it's not really that much of a problem, unless you go in a party with those annoying aggro OCD people that want HM monsters to bunch up like they do in other games.
But well, they won't, they will go for other targets as soon as they see them, so instead trying not to be seen, which is a frustrating playstyle it's better to change playstyle to not depend on enemies bunching up around some tank.

Jeydra · Jan 10, 2012, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicMew

What about replacing the invoke ele with a death magic hero? I know people have strong negative feelings about discord, but seriously - is it that much worse? Skill by skill comparison:

Chain lightning -> Deathly Swarm - basically the same
Invoke 1s cast, 6s recharge, 3 targets -> Discord? 1s cast, 2s recharge, single target
Shock arrow -> Putrid Bile? Deathly Chill? - a little extra damage

Granted invoke is just better due to hitting more targets, but a necro has less reliance on enchantments, and the possibility of having extra minions.

It's a good idea held back by a few things:

1. Lightning damage > Cold damage; cold damage is highly resisted by a few foes such as Frozen Elementals
2. Invoke is AoE
3. Invoke does more damage
4. Discord needs certain conditions to trigger

Without the exhaustion Invoke Lightning is very much the ideal nuke: AoE, high damage, fast recharge, not too taxing on energy, deals Lightning damage.

That said, I've been playing around with N/P Discord Necros and they've been doing OK. I don't feel that all the skills on the bar are pulling their weight, but the overall product (as in the teambuild) is an improvement over using unaltered post-nerf Invoke Eles.

Avatar Exico · Jan 10, 2012, 04:00 PM // 16:00

man just DD and Shockwave Eles can 1 shot mobs like nothing, that insane, only need to bring those two and own any mob in 1 shot. bring even more dmg could always add the Starburst and really dominate.

urania · Jan 10, 2012, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Stone Sheath is definitely bonkers.

necs or rend touch/rending sweep dervs = win.

it's funny when you face no ench removal with that elite thou.

Turbobusa · Jan 10, 2012, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

necs or rend touch/rending sweep dervs = win.

it's funny when you face no ench removal with that elite thou.

Everything has a counter. Now, on a 6 second recharge, you WILL have some uptime except if the otehr team spams their enchant removal on you on recharge or bring multiple copy. Plus they would have to time to get it when it's on the top of the stack of enchant a dervish (for exemple) would bring.
Even then it would strip it on a single target, but stone sheath targets 2 allies...so you still win.

urania · Jan 10, 2012, 08:08 PM // 20:08

did i in any post say it wasnt 'bonkers', as lem said?

given necs were part of the meta in TA, often running dual ench removal, itd be enough to strip it off one target at least, but if you're forced to bring some type of enc removal 'just in case' because its so strong that you otherwise wont ever kill without removal vs a proper ele that already says enough.
and since necs arent really the meta in gvg/ha, you gotta improvise, i suppose.

Ariena Najea · Jan 10, 2012, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

did i in any post say it wasnt 'bonkers', as lem said?

given necs were part of the meta in TA, often running dual ench removal, itd be enough to strip it off one target at least, but if you're forced to bring some type of enc removal 'just in case' because its so strong that you otherwise wont ever kill without removal vs a proper ele that already says enough.
and since necs arent really the meta in gvg/ha, you gotta improvise, i suppose.

Corrupt Enchantment has never been more fun in RA... Running this generally carries teams post-update. I sometimes bring Faint instead, but generally bring Insidious since there are about 0 good Rangers playing RA nowadays.

*lemming* · Jan 10, 2012, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Don't forget that it's also a weakness applier that lasts a week and covers about half of the map between its two AoEs.

Oh, and it does damage.

The Drunkard · Jan 11, 2012, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Because heroes would only cast DD when BOTH themselves and the target would deal damage from it.

If you add the right kind of spells to his bar, the hero would move closer to the enemies before casting, thus increasing the chance of them casting DD. This also means greater risks on your ele hero though.

It there some sort of trick to get heroes to use DD at a casters range? The only times I can get hero eles to use the skill is if I give them a melee weapon, which often ends badly for the rest of my team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

necs or rend touch/rending sweep dervs = win.

it's funny when you face no ench removal with that elite thou.

Or you can just put Mirror of Disenchantment on a mesmer and stop the doublecast nonsense in the first place

urania · Jan 11, 2012, 09:56 AM // 09:56

i was merely listing a few examples. obviously you can bring that too, but its quite a 'fat' slot taker on a mesmer's bar.

on a side note, my fav build for ench control has been a PoD nec with rip and ff/ps. and that has been the case ever since eles made their first big 'debut' in pvp (read: especially RA) with the stupid damage buff flux.
moreover, its cool to kill low targets with pod when they get a patient spirit or one of those double cast thingies.

but then again, my fav atm is a pleech mesmer that just rolls through eles of all sorts. anything anti caster has a field day ever since the ele buff anyway. until it faces 2 dervs+ranger, that is.

superraptors · Jan 11, 2012, 10:39 AM // 10:39

such a terrible update should have stayed in pve only or change it to adjacent + double ench lasts way too long.

Daesu · Jan 11, 2012, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

It there some sort of trick to get heroes to use DD at a casters range? The only times I can get hero eles to use the skill is if I give them a melee weapon, which often ends badly for the rest of my team.

I don't know of any trick of let heroes use DD at max spell casting range, unless the ele hero is being attacked by melee.

What I do is to equip my ele hero with spells that target nearby/adjacent enemies like Flame Burst and Phoenix which cause the hero to move much closer to the enemies. This increases the chance of the hero casting DD. Like I have said, the drawback, is also the increased risk to your ele hero but you can equip your ele hero with defensive skills too.